Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

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Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:58 pm

I propose a severe limitation to Zan/Passive heal stacking to prevent BH'ing.

I propose to just not let zan heals stack with self effect moves such as HSR or AL. Make the players choose! If you picked a passive heal for your Zan it was probably because you did not want to waste a turn activating HSR or AL. I've seen much BH'ing from people that are able to stack Zan and Self effect heals, most run away to heal 4k + per turn and ruin the fight and the purpose of the passive heal.

Why shouldn't they stack? It at some point during the fight, promotes BH'ing and lacks strategy.

I'm not saying "Nerf the heal %" . I am saying "Make them so they won't stack." Seriously if you have a passive heal, you shouldn't abuse it like you do by stacking~

So what would happen if this is by any low chance accepted and done? It will simply limit BH'ing. It could be like this: (Using Riku as example)

Turn 1:
Riku absorbs reiatsu from his surroundings and uses it to boost his regenerative capabilities, allowing them cure minor wounds of flesh and restore their strength for the following onslaught.
-Riku heals 1764.00 health-

Turn 2:
Riku moves to 2.6.
-Riku heals 1200.00-
-Riku heals 1764.00-

That's how heal can -and is- being abused these days. (Note: this never happened, just using examples)
If LSM could make it to where it wont stack it would look like this:

Turn 1:
Riku absorbs reiatsu from his surroundings and uses it to boost his regenerative capabilities, allowing them cure minor wounds of flesh and restore their strength for the following onslaught.
-Riku heals 1764.00 health-

Turn 2:
Riku moves to 2.6.
-Riku heals 1200.00 health-

See what I did there? That's what I suggest should be like, the self effect to replace the passive. That way it would limit BH'ing/ "retreating or drifting to heal"


Posted on behalf of Chi:
"Passive heal is a problem, yes. Similar to "Zanpakutou Growth" and range boost that used to be, so good thing this issue was addressed. Also; nerfing the heal of releases as in passive effects isn't the solution here."


Last edited by Lust on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Dantryll on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:16 pm

no leave them alone
i have pvped users with both
and no such thing has happened
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by orosan on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:19 pm

Lsm already said before he has plans about this.
why ppl no pay attention? e-e

i remember him saying that he'll fix it so that ppl with passive heal on their zan/ress ,if they use a healing move, that move wont heal them greatly.

so either your zan or AL o-o
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:31 pm

That's exactly what I am proposing Oreo. dant, you don't have the PvP experience to fully understand what I'm talking about, people have done this many times. Luckily not to you ~
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Legend on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:42 am

I don't mind people stacking heals but I know how annoying it is. Best offense is a all out assault let them stack heals I'll just out power them in damage or let them spam their silly stacking heals and wait for them to run their pools down.

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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:26 am

Ikr Legs? But still as of now, you can stack up to 3 heals at once and I do believe this need to be limited before it can start to be severely abused.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Dantryll on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:30 am

what oreo said already happens
if they have a passive heal
when they use there HSR or AL
both heals heal less
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:38 am

That isn't what I am proposing. You should only be able to stack 1 heal, whether it's a zan heal or not, it's your choice.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Azula on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:11 am

Well, what would be the point of evening having a heal move like AL if you have a heal effect on your zan? There wouldn't BE a point. If, say, you have 10% heal and heal 1570 per turn at level 100, then use AL, and said nerf was in place, then zan would be cut...say down to only 80%..and the heal would also be 50% or something...for a level 100 with 10% zan and capped AL(around 1000, I believe), they would heal 1256 with zan plus 500 from AL, meaning a total of 1756

That's not that hax, and everyone has access to healing moves for their appropriate race.

And do you also propose cutting down drains? They were recently changed already.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:23 am

http://prntscr.com/gqof8
^
Proof that it is being abused.

And no, drains are no longer a problem since they work like residuals and only high effect/low damage drains on customs are able to steal like 800HP at level 80 or so. Which seems pretty fair to me since the person went through hard work to get it to that level. (They can't be paid for by train, so no need to nerf them further)

Still, one should one be able to stack 1 heal, you picked passive heal for your zan to eliminate the need to consume a turn to activate AL/HSR. Now choose, heal 1750 every other turn or heal 1200 every turn.


Last edited by Lust on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Azula on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:34 am

Not all have a 1750 though, aha! Only those rare few with 11% heal, I presume.

Either way, this seems to be up to Lsm now.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:39 am

It it, still waiting on chi's side of it, if she sees this as important enough I do think she can modify his list of updates and bump it up a few spaces.

Not all people do have 11% heal, true. But it's still abusable because you all just sit across the map and stare at each other till you or the opponent is healed. Or one opponent runs while healing 3k+ and you waste pools chasing. However, if it was made to not stack, your opponent would -logically- activate HSR/AL because it heals every turn and not every other turn. Therefore, giving more strategy and preventing from mass healing of 1200 every turn and 1750 + 1200 every other turn.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Azula on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:42 am

Except the fast of BHing, since more than 3 turns on moving away is BH, as is 6 turns without attacking. Also, AL and HSR are glitchy, especially where drains are involved. What if a person chose HSR or AL, and then it glitches out on them? They'd be sunk.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:44 am

They have not been reported to the bugged/glitched moves thread by anyone. So by definition, they are working perfectly.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Azula on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:48 am

Actually, they are buggy. Sometimes they'll go for like 7 turns, sometimes only 3, and sometimes only 1. Especially where drains and bankai releases are involved.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:51 am

Then you should report it, according to the rules, withholding info on bugs/glitches is bad and can be met with seerious punishment~
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Sorayn on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:28 am

^^ Agree'd with Lust.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Legend on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:35 am

Its already been reported to Lsm a while ago. The bug is sometimey so its hard to figure out how its coming up because sometimes it works and sometime it doesn't.

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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Azula on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:17 pm

Exactly
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Haruchi on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:16 am

HSR and AL having a glitched turn duration is a commonly known bugger first reported after occurring in unison with leeching moves and whatnot - to Lsm as well. Sorry, no witholding of bug/glitch information here. :OhNoes2:

Afaik, leech moves glitching has been fixed, though. Can anyone confirm if they've been buggering out?

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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lsmjudoka on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:53 am

o-o Last time I checked heals getting cancelled was fixed in the same update with residuals and leeches. Is it still an issue?
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:50 am

*Bump*

BTW: No it isn't. Stacking heals is a small -but abused- issue. /).(\
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lsmjudoka on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:51 am

Explain.
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

Post by Lust on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:12 am

http://prntscr.com/gqof8
(Sorry yuki don't mean to put you on the spot)

This is how it is being abused. To be able to have a passive zan heal (I'm not suggesting to nerf heal % or anything) a Armory heal (Such as AL or HSR) and what seems to a zan move heal is somewhat very abusable. Because HSR/AL already stack with passive heal, not to mention that the zan move heal seems to be of different type (spirit/melee) is what allows it to be abused.

What I propose is to give people a 1 or 2 choice.
Choice 1: If you have a passive heal on your zan, keep it and heal it's % normally every other turn.
Choice 2: To choose to use AL/HSR over your passive heal and heal 1260 hp (Capped AL/HSR at bankai/RSE) every turn

To make them not stack-able to force the choice not let them abuse it/
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Re: Zan/Self effect heal Limitations

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