Loan/Avy System

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Loan/Avy System

Post by Azula on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:26 am

Say Player 1 is an avy maker. They agree to make an avy for Player 2 for 4million yen. Once the avy is sent, Player 2 laughs at 1 and never pays.

---OR---

Player 3 is loaning out yen and shards with a 10% interest rate with 3 months to pay, with extra interest once the payment becomes late, with the people taking the loans able to pay back over the course of the 3 months. Player 4 takes out a loan and, when time is up, refuses to pay what they owe.

In both of these, the ones offering avies/loans get screwed over.

I propose a system of sorts that would prevent the people from getting robbed of their agreement. For avies, quite simply it would be an option to, similar to Proposals, offer the avy/siggy or whatever the deal is for XX amount of Yen/Souls. The one being offered this accepts or declines, and of course they can either work out the amount before sending this via PMs, or can work it out in the offer process system. Once agreed, the system would keep track, say in another panel on the profile page, of the current agreements, visible only to those involved and moderators (to make sure people are honest.)
Once avy maker has completed the work, or the other player sends the money, there'd be an option to click to say their end is done. The other must then fulfill theirs before the popup (like PMs) or option on profile would disappear. This would be why mods could see it, to verify they follow through. Yes, this'd be more work for mods, but as an avy maker - and as one who has taken out loans in the past - I think this is a burden that could be worth it.

The loans would be about the same, only with the added interest feature. Just put in loan amount, interest amount, and deadline, and, same as Avy and PMs popup, the other player would see the option, to accept or decline.

There would also be the option to cancel the loan/avy order, which is another reason mods would need to see it, to verify the yen (in avy) either gets sent back or didn't get sent before avy maker cancelled, or that avy wasn't sent when buyer cancelled. Also, both would have to agree to cancel, again a popup like PMs sent to the one not initiating the cancel. Same for loans.

What happens if the person who ordered/took the loan doesn't pay up, or vice-versa for avy maker?
For avy orders, the one who didn't pay the maker could be disallowed from using the system until they paid up, OR the amount could be taken from them and given to the maker, ONLY IF there is proof the avy was sent (again, moderator viewing.)

For loans, same thing, only if the interest would probably have to stay fixed, not going up after the deadline was passed, perhaps instead adding again the entirety to it per week/month the loan was late. I'm not entirely sure how the one not paying back would be dealt with, perhaps taking the money/shards and paying to the one who loaned out, or something else. Feel free to offer options, and of course comments to any of this.
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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Hitori on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:32 am

Just something to include to this, since it's relevant with your inclusion of mods. I feel that the system is sort of a waste of resources since you're warned about it.

Terms of Service wrote:Loans or transactions of real or in-game currency are between players. Staff take no responsibility for the completion of them. If a player loans real or in-game currency to another player, staff will not be responsible for ensuring the currency is returned.

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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Enerjak on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:37 am

Chrom wrote:Just something to include to this, since it's relevant with your inclusion of mods. I feel that the system is sort of a waste of resources since you're warned about it.

Terms of Service wrote:Loans or transactions of real or in-game currency are between players. Staff take no responsibility for the completion of them. If a player loans real or in-game currency to another player, staff will not be responsible for ensuring the currency is returned.
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I would have to disagree with your statement because i think it would be fair for someone to have there money. also it seems kind of lazy and shows how the staff are not into helping the players with currency problems, so i think this system would be great improvement.

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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Azula on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:39 am

Twas a koo idea until Chrom's post reminded me of that :okay:

Thought of it cause I've had people complain about this a lot. Never claimed the idea was purfekt, would need some work. But yeah...
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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Dead_pool on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:44 am

Still be nice if the staff wanted to help maybe if one them agreed to over see it...what happened to Crow is a shame and disgusting, this would help poor players  get customs and stuff...4 million a day is not alot but it does show a person is trying, this plan sounds like it would help people get their money back, people do it out of kindness and people take advantage of them is just sick!
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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Azula on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:47 am

That's kind of my thinking. I don't like seeing people get ripped off, like make an avy arrangement and then never get paid for XX amount of hours in photoshop while the other guy laughs and uses the pic anyways. And deleting off of the hoster doesnt work when they can save and reupload the image themselves.

Or yeah, Crow is a good example of loan failures. Tis why I rarely have loaned out in the past, despite being asked.
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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Dead_pool on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:52 am

I try to pay people back not only is it the right thing to do, it because that person was kind and willing to give out and they worked hard for it and yet they loaned it to you, at least you can try to pay it back. I like this system and I hope it is approved maybe a rehualr and trusted user can be the middle man?
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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Hitori on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:08 am

I don't see how staff overseeing it could help o-o; You're warned that you participate in loans at your own risk. Even if a staff member did oversee it, since it's in the terms of service, no official action could be taken (warnings or bans) since you're warned that we won't attempt to recover/refund your lost money. As for avatars, you could require the money up front and just adjust it to the user's tastes.

I don't mean to be pessimistic about this idea, I just don't see the need for it.

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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by orosan on Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:48 pm

excluding the avtar thing.

i myself dont like seeing ppl getting scammed off their money which they paid for to get ingame.

im sorry to say that i can really be of no help if someone scams you and nvr pays you back D:
unless an anti-scam rule was input.

just have to get hope that maybe one day they will pay soon 
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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Hitori on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:40 pm

One way since there is not rules preventing scamming is to kind of pay attention to who you're loaning to. Have they taken out loans before and not repaid them? Do you have full trust in them? Basically, only loan to those you trust and only loan what you're willing to lose. When dealing in things like this, it's like the lottery -- play without any expectations of winning.

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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by kingkkkkgggg on Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:40 am

I agree with chrom and I feel this would be a good idea & I say change the rules just for this :screwthis:
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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Greed on Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:35 pm

why not just ask a admin to be middle man/lady xD


send admin the ava link person buying sends the cash to admin exchange done but then again they probably get enough already from  ppl with no seats xD
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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Hitori on Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:22 pm

It's not really a staff duty, though if a member that both of you trust is the "middle man," go for it. (Hooray for mod middle man on TNR that myself and Deathwings came up with? xD)

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Re: Loan/Avy System

Post by Crow on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:56 am

To chime in here I agree with Azula on this. Adding a bit more work for the mods is not a bad thing as it can weed out lazy mods so that better ones can be put into that position. Hito no offense man but you were a trusted person and I got burned just as bad from you as other. There needs to be a way to recover their losses or a long term ban put on those that scam (steal) from those that have pay RL money to help others out. Otherwise like it is currently no one buys shards and the game as a whole suffers.
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Re: Loan/Avy System

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