Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Dead_pool on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:16 pm

If a petty arrogant players takes the seat when I am gone...someone has failed...and I will have to return...I don't want WoB gone...not while games like TNR is still out there...but the way it stands we are at a disadvantage
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Sveti_Diabhal on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:18 pm

I don't liek the idea of abolishing the seat items for the Espada/capt and the FC/LT cause then theres basically no point at all in having fraccs/squads and at that point might as well just have RP and have the King or CC set the boosts. and i think that would be dull boring and counter intuitive. just my 2 cents.

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by WarJack on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:22 pm

Absolutely agree that the mechanical difference between Hollows and Shinigami needs to be equalised, if only for fairness of the game, let alone enjoyment.

Some great ideas have been raised, as I read through previous replies, such as;
Giving responsibility of seat items over to the Head of SS/King of Hueco Mundo.
The creation of a new barracks (Fracc 0).
The creation of the 'Kings Fraccion'.

Do I have more ideas to add..? Probably.

Have you thought about what the names of Hollow's evolutionary stages are in cannon?
Hollow, Gillian, Adjuchas, Vasto Lorde.
Perhaps the creation of a Vasto Lorde only barracks in Hueco Mundo. The title of 'Vasto Lorde', would be handed out by the King of Hueco Mundo, for the best of the best perhaps?
It would give something that the lesser experienced Hollows can strive for.

Perhaps, the time should be taken now to re-name the 'Ranks' of WoB Hollows (something I have always privately struggled with, especially when having the cannon wiki up on another screen).

Thoughts?
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Recap.

Post by Lazria_nakayami on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:31 pm

straywolf174 wrote:
"(whoever the king, etc. may be at the time,) always picks that fracc\game member!"

Honestly I wouldn't want the King to appoint people for the seats (No offense to Dormammu ^^") due to that very reason. I simply would want them to be additional contestable seats or even their own fraccions if that is too sketchy in the end.

They don't have to be additional numbers (ex. 11,12,13) Since that doesn't work for the espada rankings, But could have other titles like:

Royal Fraccion, King's Fraccion, Guardians of Hueco Mundo, The GateKeepers (What have you) being full fledged fraccions outside of the espada numbering system.

Just, something would be appreciated. In the long run making special named fraccions may make the ranking system look a little weird in them so just making them Seat items seems the most fluid lore wise to me.

That being said, i'd rather us just having 3 more fraccions to contend with their 3 additional squads. The names are up in the air but their function would be all the same.

[Recapped Idea from the input so far]

With everything considered the best of what has been put into two ideas. (In my perspective)

1. We create 3 new fraccions outside the espada numbering system.

2. We create 6 seat items (3 Espada, 3 Fraccion Commanders) that are contestable subdivisions of the King's seat. (King's Fraccion, Royal Guard, Hollow Book Club w.e.) Which are merely there for the seat items and potential fraccion point balancing via the system we described prior.
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Senpai on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:47 pm

I really like this idea. I've always had the feeling that Shinis having more Squads and therefore more Seat Items serves as a rather big disadvantage (granted how good the seat items are in comparisson to the evolutions). I feel like having more seat items or more fracciones overall would really help balance the PvP in the lower ranks (r5 and r6) due the ammount of r6 Lt vs the r6 Fracc Comm.
Personally, I dont know if having whether 3 more fraccions or 6 new items would work best but its worth taking a shot at either, for balancing issues at least.

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by CYRO on Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:16 am

So I had an idea about the new fraccion seats. We wish to stay close to the story of bleach but to be honest I dont see it really...we are not ichigo..azien...we just are not them. So why focus on that fact? why not have this as a new generation?

Hollows are natural enemies of the shinigami and we could be trying to create our own Home in the wake of the past generation.

With this in mind if we did do it why not create three more fraccions? Why not have a larger royal Family?

Why not have the three new fraccion be the  kinds guard the queens guard and the Prince/Princess guard?

Example.

Queen/ Queens body guard/ queens attendant.
General/ Kings Body guard/ Kings Attendant(since the rank of King and Captain commander must remain separate.)
Prince/Princess// Personal Guard//Personal attendant.

I personally say lets keep bleach as close as possible to the story but let us make our own stories...Dont forget soul society was around a long time long before the current generation of captains that are in the manga existed. Just look at there hidden squad that protected the spirit king I don't see that squad properly here ether.

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Jackie-boy on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:42 am

In slight reference to an idea I've seen there could be
something like an Elite Guard led by the Cero Espada( Espada Zero). The Zero Espada would be a rank 8 incredibly strong hollow,because they would have had to fight to get to Espada rank just to qualify for one position as an Elite Guard.

It's pretty lore friendly and would work in similar fashion to canon Bleach's Royal Guard. Because who's to say that hollows couldn't develop their own methods of organization? This would allow for a new group as it would take away the Espadas from the current fraccions(All that are strong enough to keep the position once acquiring it) and move them to Elite Guard position within Cero Espada's group.

Cero Espada(Espada 0) Could be the leader of those elite as I've said. He could have his own seat item. And so would the members of his
Fracc. But there could only be a limited number of Fracc members.(6-7 not counting Cero Espada) Old Espada could go to this group and that would allow more hollows to fill in the positions.

You'd have to be an Espada to challenge any Elite Guard from Fracc 0. And you'd have to be an Elite Guard to challenge the Cero Espada for his seat.
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by straywolf174 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:48 am

Once again, Lazzy, your ideas thuroughly amaze me! I'm not sure if in previous posts i misunderstood, but even if i did, i'm all for this suggestion, since it would really improve playability, enjoyment AND eqaulity! Smile
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by straywolf174 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:49 am

Once again, Lazzy, your ideas thuroughly amaze me! I'm not sure if in previous posts i misunderstood, but even if i did, i'm all for this suggestion, since it would really improve playability, enjoyment AND eqaulity! Smile
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Dead_pool on Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:33 am

That's my wife <3 *huggles her* now if we can just get this approved and put in we will finally have equal number of seats to the shinigami...
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Sveti_Diabhal on Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:38 pm

apparently now we get new descriptions and stuff on the old zans no one wants anymore Pokerface

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by kazen on Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:51 pm

*cough cough* I want my non custom Ress *cough cough*

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Dead_pool on Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:11 pm

It's not about filling fraccions up...it's about what's fair, they have 9 more seats to us and people say it is from the sake of lore? yet there are other things in Bleach that are not in WoB? The Boss and defender gives FP...everyone can get FP easily now. at best 4 people run Fraccion 10...not 20, or 30...4 people and we have enough for at least 3 large boost...so the reason of not having people for 3 more fraccs is heresay. We should have 3 more fraccs from the beginning if seat items were going to be added...even if they had more scouting then us, even that is more...because they will have something that we will not, and that is not FAIR in the long run, because at the end of this Hollows will be at a major disadvantage. What's next Shinigami can go farther into releasing but hollows can only go into SE? The Lore was set up so hollow could lose...and that is what new people will think when they play this game, some will think "it is just a game, I am certain it will not be like that..." But it is...others will say. "So where is this thing and that thing, if it follows the lore?"
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Lazria_nakayami on Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:23 pm

What I would want LSM to read at face value.

Due to the series lore only containing 10 Hollow Fraccions (The ten espada) perhaps to balance the seat items we could have a "King's Fraccion or some other form of royal based seats where Legendary Espada can contest for the Fraccion positions that can purchase their own Captain level seat items.

These could simply be titled King/Queen or Royal Fraccion numbers or actual rank names of some kind. Although a number system would probably be easier unless something fitting comes to mind.
We are aware the King's Fraccion in the series aren't on par with Captains at the time but given the pace of the series the Hollow didn't necessarily have much time to mature anyway. Since Aizen was pretty much their 'king' from the WoB perspective existing out of the espada ranking then they could be our version of Aizen's traitor subordinates. Gin and Tousen.

The only reason we suggest this is it seems we are reluctant to add additional barracks due to continuity/lore reasons so hopefully this could give us the much needed seat items without conflicting with the lore.

In the long run making additional special named fraccions may make the ranking system look a little weird in them due to how the series’ number ranking system works. (Espada 1-10 or 0-9) so just making them Seat item based ‘Race Officer Seats’ seems the most fluid lore-wise.

Since we are missing three sets of barracks or up to three Espada and Fraccion Commander Seats in contrast to the Shinigami’s additional three squads to us, we would appreciate either three new barracks outside of the Espada numbering system (Royal Guard, Protectors of Hueco Mundo, Hollow Defenders or whatever name happens to sound fitting to your design) or create the three sets of racially contested officer seats.

More contextually in game, these seats could be located under Race HQ in a new Officer tab/section and can be contested by any able Legendary (Or maybe Privaron as well) Espada. The appropriate seats for Fraccion commander would hold true to our current system as well where Arrancar or higher could contest if necessary. When these rank officers generate fraccion points they can either be additional race points ‘or’ help generate frac points for less populated fraccions.

We developed a base idea for this as the following.
When one of these officers gain/generate frac points it would be distributed:

-either ‘randomly’ to a fraccion.
-to the fraccion with the least amount of current frac points
-to their own frac since they would still be apart of their original fraccion (Albeit could be unbalanced due to having multiple seats in one fraccion so we are not in favor of this possible choice)

We would appreciate any elaboration or consideration of this idea. This revised idea was developed from this thread.
http://worldofbleach-forum.forumotion.net/t2301-balancing-the-number-of-racial-seat-items

All ideas are credited to their original suggestors.

[If anyone thinks something should be shown differently please elaborate]
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Lazria_nakayami on Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:29 pm

In addition to what was posted above, I have another thought that may work out.

Since some have posted it may be unfair for hollows to have those seat item only positions, then maybe we can get the best of both worlds and ask for LSM to give us the extra barracks AND the Racial seat items for both races.

The Captain commander himself ran Squad 1 and wasn't his own position to begin with. I believe the Captain commander was simply the strongest captain out of the existing captains and appointed with seniority.

So According to the series to begin with, we are already breaking some of the lore by adding a squad 1 captain AND having a captain commander.

As some have posted previously, we aren't directly from the series so things are viable to change so the excuse, 'it doesn't follow the series enough' shouldn't be able to pass since we already don't do that.

Now, the recapped idea I have been thinking about is:

Implementing all options from the above post for Hollows and the three sets of additional seats for the Shinigami as well. Not only would this balance both sides it would bring a new feature that may be beneficial overall to the unity of each race.
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Zero on Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:34 am

I think this is a reasonable idea.
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Lsmjudoka on Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:28 pm

So the reason for the 13 Squads and 10 Espada isn't strictly because it's something that they did in Bleach. It's because it's one of the more visual/noteable things thematically and it would honestly IMO feel pretty weird to have 13 Espada, when the 10 Espada were one of the coolest things from Bleach.

With that said I'm open to some ideas that do not involve adding 3 additional squads/barracks. One thought I had was making the Hollow seat items slightly stronger to account for the lower number, but that would probably create more issues than it would solve. Another idea I had was making seat items available for Head Fraccion on Hollow side, but that would end up giving you 4 more seat items than the Shini.

A more full-featured system like the Elite Guard type thing is possible but very involved. However this is probably the best way to approach it, because adding extra officer seats in anything less than an in-depth system would probably feel superficial and forced. I have a lot of other things before an elite guard type system in my to-do list, but I will make plans to add a way of compensating for lack of seat items in there.
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Aless on Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:51 pm

Idk its be good add one mre squad whit strong items
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Sveti_Diabhal on Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:00 pm

Honestly, they had the failed fractions or whatever the 100+ numbers and then they had Aizen, Tousen, and Gin and then that tree dude. so honestly i don't think adding 3 "barracks" would be outside of the more memorable parts of the series. I agree with 10 espadas, but what says the barracks have to belong to 'Espada'?

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Grimmjow on Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:42 am

Well in the series when Aizen was leading the Espada and basically the King of Hueco Mundo he had Gin and Tousen as his director generals. So you could always go with the Elite Guard idea and make three Director General positions. Not exactly sure how you would balance this out maybe make each director general leads a special task force fraccion like the Exequias. The other three Director General fraccions could be like a research task force or special advance scouts not really sure on that particular thing if anyone else has ideas for special task force names that would be good because honestly I'm not good at that sort of thing. This would however give the hollows 13 captain and lieutenant lvl seats.
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Blasphmy on Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:14 pm

Like Grimm said, you "could" count 2 seats as Elite Guards regarding Gin & Tosen. Also, a seat for say "unknown" as Wonderwiess was essentially a 11th Espada just with out the title.
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Haruchi on Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:15 pm

Tbh may be simpler to just equalize the number of squads and fraccions to 10 or similar.

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Dead_pool on Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:09 pm

I said that as well Haruchi...10 instead of 13 but people claim it is for the sake of Lore...
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by Haruchi on Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:59 pm

Strict canon = / = balance. Sad face

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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

Post by straywolf174 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:46 am

I think this was already mentioned...but....WoB is anything BUT cannon. It has things that put it in a classification of "alternate Bleach universe" or "Futuristic" of somes sort, so why not?? o.O

Must i list the many non-Anime\Manga additions...? -_-;
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Re: Balancing the number of Racial Seat items.

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