For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

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For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by Setoku on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:37 pm

Hey? You losers wanna see something 7 years here can get you? Demote a RP MOD for doing his Job..... You are about as stupid as they come! I love it. Ban me, demote me, and cry when I wipe it all away Smile You rejects tried me years ago and lost.... And you wanna try it again.....


Was that hurtful enough? Better game ban me since you stick your noses where you can't comprehend. Let's play <3
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Re: For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by straywolf174 on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:00 pm

As much as I love a good challenge, perhaps it's best not to piss off the people who hold power over our playground? I enjoy my time here - as disrespectful as the place has become.

I have trust in you though so...just be careful who's mod-cape you start tugging.
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Re: For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by Maximillion on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:07 pm

May I weigh in?

Well, I guess it's not like I have ever waited for anyone's permission to speak my mind.


1. They did away with the Rank of "RP Moderator"; Hitori stated it was because RP doesn't really need any regulating or moderating...but, in my personal opinion, I think it's because our Roleplayers have fallen off the ****ing planet, so they probably figure "The fewer hands in the pot <people calling themselves WoB Staff>, the better" and pruned what they saw as excess Staff.

2. It will be very easy for you, right now, to take this personally. However, please make note that straywolf174 was an RP Mod too, and was relieved of the same rank you once held as well. Everyone who held the rank you held, has been relieved of their post, not just you, so.... fair or not, it wasn't (from what I can see) anything personal.

3. If you folks would like your roles back, your best bet (I think) would be to create more hype for Forum RP, and get more people interested in Roleplaying WoB here. Corporations downsize entire departments if their products aren't generating hype and getting sales proportionate to the money they spend to pay the presiding Department's salaries. While WoB Staff may not receive a salary for fulfilling their duties, much of the same idea usually exists elsewhere in the world, Online and Offline.

Right now, Stray and I are the only people really Roleplaying here. Two people don't need Mods to preside over them, but maybe - if you get more people to RP here - the need for you guys as RP Mods will emerge once again!


Also, I know one has to reach a certain point in their proverbial 'Site Administrating Journey" (I'm coining this term, now), where they realize that their Staff Roles ANYWHERE have nothing to do with Power or Rank, and more to do with Duty and Responsibility.

TL;DR
There is nothing, right now, for you and Stray to do here on the RP Forums, as Staff. Get more people to RP, and to stop ignoring the boards, and you might be able to press the importance of your Roles to the Higher-Ups.
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Re: For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by straywolf174 on Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:55 pm

Maximillion wrote:May I weigh in?

Well, I guess it's not like I have ever waited for anyone's permission to speak my mind.

I'm going to put this bluntly. I appreciate your intention, but let's not talk out of our asses here. I understand what you're saying - don't take -I am a loser- personal, gain hype, prove yourself, etc. etc.

I agree. The RP forum is and has been slow. However, and this is a big however, it's always been slow. Thus, the demotion of the staff position, as much as it seems like it was because of that, was not in fact due to it being slow. It was because someone complained about staff doing their jobs - albeit a bit harshly on one side - and the other staff (or perhaps just one? I'm not entirely sure on that point) didn't enjoy the complaint, so they just did away with the rp staff entirely despite all the good myself and Setoku were doing.

Setoku has done more for the writers and creators of WoB than any other staff has, former and probably future. I have done a heck of a lot in the past, and while I attempted to just as much in the present - the reason I'm not as determined about "vengeance" is because I feel I've ghosted around too long to properly deserve to complain.

In short: We were not demoted for why you think we were, and in my understanding, it was not at all for a fair reasoning let alone an understandable one. I messaged the staff who messaged me about it, and I have yet to get a response so...until I get to have my say in the matter, have a proper discussion without power being raised like a flag - then I'm not going to attempt to do anything for a game that left all my efforts in the dust. Setoku will, because he has much more of a right to do so. I support him in that as his friend and fellow writer.

The reason I'm saying you don't have a say is because, while you're looking at it from the logical stand point - you're not seeing the bigger picture here and sometimes logic isn't the only thing to look at when it comes to making a judgement.
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Re: For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by Maximillion on Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:09 pm

Well then, sounds like you and your friend might've fallen victim to the old "Ugh, so many complaints! If I just cave in to the Terrorist's demands, I will find peace again" routine. If so, that's unfortunate on multiple counts:

1. Cave in to the demands of Terrorists, you set a precedent; they learn how much whining and griping it takes to get you (the Owner/Head Admin/etc, in question) to forget your integrity, and there will be more times in the future when someone uses this to get what they want.

2. Good people get screwed in the process. Complaints against people (people who wouldn't win a popularity vote, people who maybe have 'unpopular' ideas, etc) are usually aimed at circumventing 'proper channels', and getting people who aren't faithful little pawns removed from their responsibilities by-force.



Stray, Setoku: Did these demotions come following a recent debate, or heated discussion, about the direction of the site, wherein you guys expressed (as I've seen on the boards) that people improve their interactions with one another, while someone else tried to go "people interact just fine" or "that hasn't been a problen in forever", etc?

Or was it something else? In my experience, in cases where good people are demoted from a Staffing position in an online community, there were sneaky bastards engaging in psychological warfare, waging crusades against this player and that player, that staffer and this staffer, because (in all reality) they had too much time in their hands, no life away from the keyboard, and a need to 'Conquer' people and places.
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Re: For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by straywolf174 on Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:23 pm

Maximillion wrote:
Stray, Setoku: Did these demotions come following a recent debate, or heated discussion, about the direction of the site, wherein you guys expressed (as I've seen on the boards) that people improve their interactions with one another, while someone else tried to go "people interact just fine" or "that hasn't been a problen in forever", etc?

Or was it something else? In my experience, in cases where good people are demoted from a Staffing position in an online community, there were sneaky bastards engaging in psychological warfare, waging crusades against this player and that player, that staffer and this staffer, because (in all reality) they had too much time in their hands, no life away from the keyboard, and a need to 'Conquer' people and places.

If Setoku wants to fill you in he can, but again, honesty proceeds empathy so I gotta say - I don't think it's important that you know about former staff's business.

Also, as someone who respects people no matter the respect given, I'm going to save disclosure at Setoku's discretion not just because of my own ideals, but because this information concerns more than just my own personal business.

I can tell you what happened wasn't fair, and that it was only based on one account and one account only - and not a very investigated one, considering no reach was made to me or Setoku (to my knowledge) before the demotion was made. On every site I've staffed, communication was a courtesy for the members no matter the position: I'm offended this respect was not given to me, since I would have done so for them if the situation was reversed. If there's anything I'm upset about - it's the lack of respect, not the demotion.
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Re: For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by Maximillion on Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:39 pm

With some people, it may take having their own positions yanked away on bizarre, uninvestigated reasons, for them to give a damn that they have done it to somebody else.

Even if their reasoning was BS, Admin on sites I've worked on would at least come and explain why they were doing what they were doing, and what (they felt) led up to the action being undertaken.

Best sites I have ever been on, had 'Due Process', where - in the case of a complaint - the accused (on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty") gets a chance to stand before all involved (and any witnesses to the incident, or any character witnesses in good standing) and speak their side of things, and provide any contradicting evidence or explanations that could prove their innocence. In the cases where a false complaint was filed, the complainant would be punished.

But...most people who run sites, nowadays, are extremely young, and they hire Staff in their own age group, and they tend to (sometimes without realizing) discriminate against older players, so...that, and a number of factors, might explain why some sites still haven't adopted more mature policies when it comes to handling complaints.
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Re: For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by straywolf174 on Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:49 pm

Maximillion wrote:With some people, it may take having their own positions yanked away on bizarre, uninvestigated reasons, for them to give a damn that they have done it to somebody else.

Even if their reasoning was BS, Admin on sites I've worked on would at least come and explain why they were doing what they were doing, and what (they felt) led up to the action being undertaken.

Best sites I have ever been on, had 'Due Process', where - in the case of a complaint - the accused (on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty") gets a chance to stand before all involved (and any witnesses to the incident, or any character witnesses in good standing) and speak their side of things, and provide any contradicting evidence or explanations that could prove their innocence. In the cases where a false complaint was filed, the complainant would be punished.

But...most people who run sites, nowadays, are extremely young, and they hire Staff in their own age group, and they tend to (sometimes without realizing) discriminate against older players, so...that, and a number of factors, might explain why some sites still haven't adopted more mature policies when it comes to handling complaints.

Age has nothing to do with it, it's priority and maturity. Priority is given to game mechanics and money. Maturity is lacking because- well take a reason out of a hat. I guarantee whatever you pick is probably valid enough to stick on a cork board for your presentation.

The fact of the matter is, two staff were demoted without proper execution of judgment and that's that. The system they use is either nonexistent or outdated as you said, and there's nothing we as players can do about it. I'm not going to waste my time trying to get the attention people unwilling to listen to us. If I thought fellow staff would be willing to hear normal players out, or even long time players, then I'd valiantly stand alongside you and preach until my heart broke. However, I'm an adult with two jobs and school to take care of. I wasted my free time trying to make the RP section a fair, balanced, beautiful place for WoB's few writers to retreat to...and now that free time I devoted is down the drain, and for what? Nothing.

I have boards that appreciate me, and an MMO Group that values the effort I put into it when I can. The loss of this one is just a headache.

Would I take a staff position back if they offered it? Yes, because I want to see this place grow just as much as I did in '10. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to beg Lsm to look at what some half-rate staff did just to get it.

No, I have too much pride to roll over and beg for what I know I deserved and worked hard to live up to.
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Re: For the excuses calling thenselves moderators

Post by Legend on Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:37 pm

Seto it wasn't the moderators who removed you from your position. I'd message an Admin if you have any questions. Yes, I do feel it was wrong to have your position taken away without any future notice but it happened. This post won't solve anything honestly so I'm locking it. Send Hitori or Lsm a PM regarding this. Thanks.

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