An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

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An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lacrimosa on Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:36 am

From what I've seen (at least when I was active), the forums have been mostly neglected. Heck, even patch/update notes are no longer being posted there, being delegated instead to the front page and facebook. I believe that's a bad idea because only a limited amount ( 1 if not logged in) of those News can be seen on the front page and the Facebook page is a bit overcrowded with Lsm's Corner posts to skim through efficiently. Not to mention that some update posts on facebook redirect to the News section for more details on updates. This can be solved easily with a single view-only subforum or even thread that compiles all hotfixes/patches/updates. Doing so will encourage players to refer to the forums for reference which leads to my next point: guides, resources, and discussions.


Hitori's Manual is great for starters. I see it as a mix between beginner's and intermediate guide (since it does touch on swords though I'm not too sure how relevant donors' perks are if I'm a noob and just want to know what the heck is going on), but it's horrid when it comes to combat strategy. There's is no information about how Residual damage works, how reflect works or even how AoEs work. I remember a time when I thought getting hit with a range nerf would boost my attacks' damage because less range=more damage, right? Right??? Good times. Shut up. That info is basic knowledge to the active R6-8 players, but the only reason those players got that far was either 1) experiment, experiment, math, deduction   2) asking someone in chat or in LC. Even if this is an online game, not everyone likes to do the latter. Maybe they're introverts? Lazy? Or don't speak English? All possible and something that could be remedied if more info was available to them. (Google translate while not perfect is pretty darn good for non-English speakers). Even if you or Hitori don't have the time to type it all up, players could contribute or discuss unclear mechanics there although admittedly it's gonna be a bit hard to redirect the active and knowledgeable player to the forums. My point is that whenever I want to inform myself on a new game, the first place I tend to visit is the game's forums, sometimes even skipping their official website because the info there is usually too obvious. Reviving the forums and equipping it with the right information will do wonders to help keep new players and show potential players that WoB has an active community.

I'm not trying to redirect all the chatting to the forums, far from it, mixed has been the only reason I didn't quit WoB a week into the game, but I'd like more serious talks to be made in the forums. For one, there is no pesky 300 character cap when posting. Formatting would also allow for more organized posts. Most importantly, it keeps an accessible record of what has been said. Players don't have the luxury of being able to read chat logs (though I doubt they'd want it to begin with what with the amount of nonsense there at times.) The more artsy peeps could open a thread for their avatar or signature shop where they could better display their past works. All in all, a lot can be done in the forums for community building. However, I do think that the RP chat could be moved to the forums in the form of multi-channeled Chatterbox. On that note, I'd like to address the neglected elephant in the very neglected room: role-play(s).

Why should we care about people who want to RP? We're just here to gank people, chat and set trains!

Sure thang. You do you, boo, but some people are avid Rpers, and there's no better way to get them to come back to WoB everyday then to give them a compelling RP playground (More peeps around=more peeps to gank!). It's not like forum Rping will affect your WoB gameplay. Much. (Hopefully. Though that'd be cool. RP event being translated into in-game events and vice versa. *w*)

So far, the forums' RP have been functioning and moderated independently from WoB so much so that I'm surprised the ex-mods didn't decide to just start their own RP community on another site or even continue their RP through email, skype, facebook, etc. I believe that this division is mainly due to the fact that WoB didn't have any compelling setting, background or story for the RP forums to work with. Yes, it's Bleach, but what will set apart WoB's forum Bleach RP from any other Bleach-inspired RP? There was no appeal to hop onto WoB's RP forums because there was no bridge between it and the game. What would make an avid Rper want to RP in the forums when there are so many more Bleach RPs out there that are more active, bigger and better developed? If you can't win them over on those points, 'may as well try to do it with an interesting and unique environment. Tite Kubo gave us the Exposition, time to build our own Conflict to attract more players to build the Rising Action. Plot Diagram ftw.

My suggestion is for the Content Admin and RP enthusiasts (especially those who want to organize RPs/be the GMs) work together to build the world in which WoB takes place. Are there canon characters? (Copyright issues?) What is the current state of being of all factions involved? Do they have a motif to be melting each other's face off? From what I remember of the series, the really strong Hollows turned Arrancar/Espadas weren't exactly visiting the Human World every 18 hours and the Shinigamis weren't always kicking open the gates to HM (so plz stahp. Stay in-character, but feel free to murder your brethren without mercy. I like watching you guys bleed.). What are notable NPC characters? What are their role, their personality? All of these would really help flesh out WoB's RPG aspect and help keep players entertained. Not to mention that those NPCs could be reused for events. At least get rid of "Ulquiorra's" Bone Helmet, please. ~_~ Call it Getsuga's skull. Because he's that thick-headed.


Open for discussion and input from everyone though I apologize if I don't respond in an acceptable delay. I'm really not that active on WoB anymore and just came back for the Cyber Monday Sale.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lsmjudoka on Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:16 am

Good points. The concern I have really is how much interest there really is in this. I'm not opposed to putting more effort into it but all the times we've tried before haven't really gotten anywhere - True, there isn't much of a link to the game, although that can be difficult to really make. But I'll put a poll up and see how many people would be seriously interested in an RP section on the new forum.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lsmjudoka on Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:19 am

Strawpoll is up here:
http://www.strawpoll.me/11758359
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lacrimosa on Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:36 am

you answered just as I went to sleep >:o

May be worth mentionning that it may be hard to 100% translate stats into rp (having a grid combat system in text rp may be hard )

Frankly, id be happy to rp even without my in-game stats. Inefact, I'm not too sure if that's a good idea. I'm of the belief that roleplay skill/experience should affect the strength of a character. A shoddy rper could easily ruin a rp by abusing their stats since rping isn't as much about who wins/loses as rpg.


flippin hell. mobile emojis kill posts =,=
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Maximillion on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:23 pm

Another Strawpoll.

LSM, just post updates on the Forums again, link to it in your announcements and Blog/Facebook entries, and remind people that there is RP to be had!

Doesn't require a Strawpoll, just an iota of effort.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lsmjudoka on Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:24 am

So what level of in-game connection do you think would be good, or none at all? For instance one possible level would be character name and race+rank. Or should the connection be strictly story-based? We have more story content coming but it's not in yet (first batch is in 2.6) so it would be difficult to do this before then.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by straywolf174 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:35 pm

Well, roleplay is essentially a collaboration of two or more writers to create a story with your characters...this is any roleplay, even LARPS and Tabletops - though those require more of a number or environment based output.

I don't see incorporating WoB's stats and such as a bad thing, but I do see it as a staunch in creativity when it comes to the creative writing process and that could scare away a lot of potential roleplayers. The reason I say this is because while statistical roleplays work for some, a majority of them just aren't for writers. Take ----> (click) this thread on a roleplay discussion forum for example. The amount of people saying 'it's not for me if I have to even think about it' or 'I hate it' - after years of writing with people...it tells me something, but that's just me.

Incorporating name, race and rank wouldn't be so bad as it wouldn't involve putting too much of a strain on someone, but then there's the issue of character-drive and the issue of not including people who have what us advanced roleplayers call "Character Hoarding Syndrom".

Firstly, I don't say advance roleplay to make it seem serious - it's a real thing concerning writing style, skill and so on. Secondly, character hoarding is a thing as well due to a writer having too much muse and separating it into multiple characters, not only to give the environment they play in their best but to make sure they don't get bored with one or two characters.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we were to do game-based rp as you planned which would be just using your profiles and connecting rewards to roleplay (that was the plan right?) then that along with the statistical appeal would - again - have the possibility of scaring writers off. I say possibility because on the flip side, it'd probably attract a minority who just want rewards or think it's fine...but the majority, currently (tastes within groups change over time) would be kept out of it. This would be painful for WoB's rp-side of things. Well, more painful than it already looks.

My suggestion, if I'm allowed to even make one, would be these:

1. Give souls to those who roleplay in the rp-boards for a specific time period, and one shard per (insert a long-ish time here) who do it for a longer time period. I would say souls per week, a shard every month or two months.

2. Elect RP Mods (new or old) to make sure the roleplayers are actually roleplaying and not spamming the board with *drinks tea and waits* and *drinks tea and punches hollows in the face* because while roleplay is about creative freedom, it isn't about just tossing out half-planned sentences in hopes of reward. (Even before reward, writing came first and I'd hope it still did since Roleplay is a writing community in and of itself.)

3. If one and two are not possible, or you just want the rp board closed down eventually, then implementing a rewards system for pm-rp on WoB would also be cool. You'd just require people screen-shotting three pictures of "proof". The more creative it looks the more of a reward they receive. (A paragraph is low, five paragraphs is medium, over five is large. Etc)

4. Include a panel in the profile section of WoB for your character for number three. Both for eye candy, creativity, and a subconscious psychological nudge of 'Hey, this is available! Use me!" for the RP.

5. If the connection was story based hire RP Mods on WoB's game itself in order to write and submit the story. Again, former or previous wouldn't matter here but it'd take a load off game mods and still allow game mods to supervise what went out into the WoB community.

Note: These are all small, simple suggestions. Like or dislike as you please. ~
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Hitori on Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:48 pm

I personally like a few of these options and wouldn't mind working with RP staff, assuming there's interest in the thread.

1) Assuming that game stats, rank, etc., are part of the forums - I could see giving some form of reward for growing the community. Yen/souls and AP would be fine imo (Lsm may differe here) at the recommendation of RP-staff pending approval by administration (obviously we wouldn't be able to allow RP staff to just give these away on a whim. Premium credits I don't know that there would be much that participating on a RP would constitute a valid reason for this sort of thing.

To elaborate a bit further on the yen/souls and AP reward ::
Case: User finishes a patrol / killing a boss / whatever, upon completion the thread is closed and passed on to administration for validation. Using set guidelines (say class S mission gives 30,000 yen / 5 AP to participants), it is reviewed by RP staff and approved -> then sent to game administration for a final check/balance sort of thing and if approved that admin disburses the rewards. (Obviously numbers here are abstract).

2) Additional panel for RP character in-game to me is a bit odd. What would it be used for? You can open it and see your character -- but you can already see that publicly on the forums. What would the need be for this? (this is what it sounds like to me that you're asking).

Not really an opinion on the story-based thing, since Lsm is working on that - it could be easily incorporated into the RP by staff.

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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by straywolf174 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:02 pm

Hitori wrote:
2) Additional panel for RP character in-game to me is a bit odd. What would it be used for? You can open it and see your character -- but you can already see that publicly on the forums. What would the need be for this? (this is what it sounds like to me that you're asking).

Simple, boss. As I said earlier, a minor part of it just being there would make it not only easier for players of the rpg to roleplay with one another, but simpler too. If we were being honest here, I doubt players would go out of there way to be both forum-active and game-active. At least, not the ones dedicated to spamming AI and Chat every two minutes. It'd be a psychological nudge, a quick reminder of what your creative-child (rp charrie) can do, as well as an extra feature to an already feature-packed game.

It being there reminds of incentive, to put it simply, and maybe that's what WoB's rp community needs in order for it to grow.

Hitori wrote:
1) Assuming that game stats, rank, etc., are part of the forums - I could see giving some form of reward for growing the community. Yen/souls and AP would be fine imo (Lsm may differe here) at the recommendation of RP-staff pending approval by administration (obviously we wouldn't be able to allow RP staff to just give these away on a whim. Premium credits I don't know that there would be much that participating on a RP would constitute a valid reason for this sort of thing.

RP Staff and Game Staff communication is probably the best idea WoB's RP Community's had. It always seemed a little silly to me that the staff just went, "Have at it" without any lines, boundaries, suggestions, or even a "good job". Not that adults need correction and praise 24/7, but as staff (people working together with a game's overall community) it just seemed...sort of segregated in a sense.

So in short, so long as both communities (gamers and writers) were rewarded in some sort of equal way measured on the effort they put out - I couldn't care less what the actual reward was.

The reason I suggested the premium is because of one of the updates that were released expressing that eventually shards and other premium items would be "dropped" on uncommon occasion during patrols and such. I figured that if a gamer was rewarded (albeit rarely) then why not a writer of similar devotion? It's all really just tossing idea's and seeing what sticks.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Maximillion on Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:02 pm

I think the Forums should be administrated a little more carefully, and thoughtfully, than the Browser-Game is. If this forum becomes even half as toxic and inhospitable as the Browser-Game usually is, it will almost defeat the purpose of having a refuge for people who haven't given up on WoB's potential.

Maybe have a system in place for the Artists and Writers specifically on the forums. If Hitori (sorry to use you as an example) wrote "i gawt gud, now i kill j00 wit my l33tness", and I write an eloquent, high-quality RP... I should be the one who walks away with significantly greater gains from that RP.

I was prevented from Patrolling and Fighting AIs on the Browser-Game, so I don't want someone to be able to do that here on the forums too.....but if we had some kind of system (with perks, etc) for people who do some really nice stories in here, I think that would benefit us all  greatly.

It couldn't be retroactive, either... no "oh, i wr0te dese posts 3 yeers ago, gimme da UBERNESS", nah.... from the date we begin such efforts, the System would start.

If that's going to be a problem, then maybe we should stay a mostly-unmoderated RP Forum. :-/
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lacrimosa on Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:15 am

Yay, posts! <3

Aight, I agree with most of what Stray has mentioned. I had a long arsed 1k word text in the making, but she's pretty much covered almost all that I wanted to mention while being much more concise and rambly so that monster is going into my recycle bin. Anyhoes...

Creating a direct link between the game and the RP is gonna be too hard. Big budget MMORPGs can't even do that since Rping is more of a personal experience and it's impossible to cater to a lot of Rpers without having an army of RP mods and GMs. Unless y'all wanna turn this into a visual dating sim type of game. I've never really played any, but I'd still stick around WoB. Goman is pretty damn hot in his own way I guess.

A simple solution would be to start with the same exposition and conflict for both the RP and the game and let it evolve from there. The worlds will diverge from there, each having their own character, but RP events could be inspired by in-game event (Halloween's zombie apocalypse? Heck, the RP would be perfect to elaborate on how did the zombie outbreak had begun. Valentine's day Quincy Cupid? Christmas event? Think of the RP as Lore/World-building. Heck, game mechanics in the tutorial could be explained with text bubbles from NPCs. Any situation no matter how "silly" one may think they are can be made into a decent story with the proper writing) To the people seeking immersion when they begin the game, these little tidbits of texts could do wonders especially when WoB is already very lacking in the visual graphics department.

When events will be easier to manage, RP turning points could also seep into the game just to have some event to break away from the usual PvP/Bossfights/Invasion/Chats of WoB. A Captain RPCs went full on Aizen? A WoB captain doesn't need to do that, but an important NPC having similar role could take their place, spawning random encounters/fights in Soul Society or Kyoto City while the Hollows could try and fight off an NPC invasion trying to overthrow the current K/QoHM. Unfortunately that will require more coding, but I hope that this will be somewhat more plausible once the people learning coding from LSM catches up to him. For sure however, translating in-game event into RP event is very doable. If worse comes to worst, pull an Aizen. All according to Keikaku.

One very big con to this option would be the absence of Quincies, Bounts Fullbringers, Visored (are you triggered yet, lsm?) etc. in the role play. In other words, available races or powers will be limited and events would consequently be less flexible. It's boring to always have Shinis vs Hollows in an RP although the RP could set the stage for future races being introduced lore-wise. This will however divert from Kubo's Bleach. Again, I'm not too sure how copyrights would work. So far, WoB has gotten away with a lot by not mentioning canon names, at least on the front page, RP NPCs or an unnamed character could help circumvent copyrighted characters being dropped here and there. Knock-off characters could also work as placeholders.

As for how to reward in-game players for RP activity, I don't think shards will be a good idea. That's some premium currency that I'd rather the RP not be directly involved with because it'll just encourage "rpers" to find ways to abuse the system no matter what rules are laid down. I'd rather they use their time and energy to further the RP than to find ways to go around the system...

I think giving some random icons or little trophies in a player's journal would be an interesting enough incentive if they've been active or nominated by RP mods. There could be monthly/weekly community driven "contest" or highlights in the RP forums. These contests can range from just general RP contribution to games based on writing style (whoever used the least [nominal/adjectival/etc group] in a post of at least XYZ words) or figures of speech (weirdest figure/most figures related to [insert holiday]/etc.) The latter 2 may be a tad bit too...grammatical, but just tossing those out there.


Some other small aesthetic perks would also work. People do like to post pictures in their journal and have a fancy icon so it's not like every reward need to be 'useful' in-game. Also…*cough*sillyin-gameachievements*cough* Yes, I still don't wanna drop that subject. I am determined to somehow get a "Leeroy Jenkins" title into WoB now that I've managed to get duckfaces into the game.

One thing that should be treated with care would be the fact that some WoBbers don't want to RP and some Rpers don't want to WoB, so rewards shouldn't too game changing. Don't wanna make balancing WoB even more of a headache...

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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Maximillion on Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:35 pm

I also think this laughingstock that is members of a strict, hierarchical and orderly Gotei 13 preying upon one another, and preventing one another's growth, and disrupting the endeavors of an entire Squad to train up and prepare for upcoming Raids and Boss Fights, should not be allowed to spread it's wretched, befouled hand into the mechanics of any kind of System we set up for RP on the Forums.

It makes sense that a largely anarchic community would struggle to understand how the Gotei 13 would actually function, but that's all the more reason they shouldn't get nasty and rude with those of us who do, and who (at our own expense) take the time to explain it.

The nihilistic humor, the off-color remarks and 'jokes' in mixed company, the irreverent use of such 'humor' as going "#TRIGGEREDDEDED" and using obscene Memes accompanying every OOC post or comment...

We also need to make up our mind. Are we an 18+ Community? Act like it. Are we a PG-13 Community? Then, hold everyone to that, and act like it.

I, for one, am done seeing "replaced a few 0's and 5's, replaced a few 0.1's and 0.2's" in the Update Logs, until Community Guidelines have a thorough, ethical upheaval.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lacrimosa on Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:05 pm

This thread is about how to revive the forums and what to do about the RP, so kindly remain on-topic. Complaints about mods and how in-game chat is moderated is another can of worm.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Maximillion on Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:13 pm

Lacrimosa wrote:This thread is about how to revive the forums and what to do about the RP, so kindly remain on-topic. Complaints about mods and how in-game chat is moderated is another can of worm.
Sorry... not sure I'm confident in my ability to explain what I'd like to see on the forums, and what I don't want to see on the forums, without referring to examples.

I could use examples from other sites, but I get the impression they would be seen as less relevant than what's actually happened on WoB.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by straywolf174 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:21 pm

Lacrimosa wrote:
Creating a direct link between the game and the RP is gonna be too hard. Big budget MMORPGs can't even do that since Rping is more of a personal experience and it's impossible to cater to a lot of Rpers without having an army of RP mods and GMs. Unless y'all wanna turn this into a visual dating sim type of game. I've never really played any, but I'd still stick around WoB. Goman is pretty damn hot in his own way I guess.

I know it was a joke (a joke that made me laugh in a very silent room...embaressing) but just to make sure there's an idea of what that would look like, I was a part of a game like that before. It was fine but the staff eventually quit on it's one attraction (the visual novel) so the entire game became stat farming and *hugs* moments in cbox. Very lame stuff, no matter how good a player may look in Loita Fashion.

Lacrimosa wrote:
A simple solution would be to start with the same exposition and conflict for both the RP and the game and let it evolve from there. The worlds will diverge from there, each having their own character, but RP events could be inspired by in-game event (Halloween's zombie apocalypse? Heck, the RP would be perfect to elaborate on how did the zombie outbreak had begun. Valentine's day Quincy Cupid? Christmas event? Think of the RP as Lore/World-building. Heck, game mechanics in the tutorial could be explained with text bubbles from NPCs. Any situation no matter how "silly" one may think they are can be made into a decent story with the proper writing) To the people seeking immersion when they begin the game, these little tidbits of texts could do wonders especially when WoB is already very lacking in the visual graphics department.

When events will be easier to manage, RP turning points could also seep into the game just to have some event to break away from the usual PvP/Bossfights/Invasion/Chats of WoB. A Captain RPCs went full on Aizen? A WoB captain doesn't need to do that, but an important NPC having similar role could take their place, spawning random encounters/fights in Soul Society or Kyoto City while the Hollows could try and fight off an NPC invasion trying to overthrow the current K/QoHM. Unfortunately that will require more coding, but I hope that this will be somewhat more plausible once the people learning coding from LSM catches up to him. For sure however, translating in-game event into RP event is very doable. If worse comes to worst, pull an Aizen. All according to Keikaku.

I actually really, really love this idea you threw out here. While it'd require work like you said, it would make a lot of sense and provide artists on WoB to submit the art for the NPC's and writers to collaborate on both RP and WoB stories via Staff Supervision. Normal members who volunteer. It'd be a cute display of team work, don't you think?

Lacrimosa wrote:
One very big con to this option would be the absence of Quincies, Bounts Fullbringers, Visored (are you triggered yet, lsm?) etc. in the role play. In other words, available races or powers will be limited and events would consequently be less flexible. It's boring to always have Shinis vs Hollows in an RP although the RP could set the stage for future races being introduced lore-wise. This will however divert from Kubo's Bleach. Again, I'm not too sure how copyrights would work. So far, WoB has gotten away with a lot by not mentioning canon names, at least on the front page, RP NPCs or an unnamed character could help circumvent copyrighted characters being dropped here and there. Knock-off characters could also work as placeholders.

From my understanding, WoB has always found ways to get out of being considered cannon. I'm sure bringing in fake race names and such wouldn't be too hard. Might not even have too, since Hollows and Shinigami were already used. Quinicies (Kuinshi) could be Archers (Arōshūtā) which translates to Arrow Shooter instead of Monk of Destruction, Bounts could be Soul Eaters (Souruītā) since they live by eating human souls like hollows, Fullbringers could be called Genzaika meaning "Manifest(ing)" since Fullbringer was taken from Manifestation Artist, and Visored could simply be called Reapers since they're still technically the same race as Shinigami they just have an inner hollow and a pretty holloween mask. These are just examples of how to get passed race-issues though.

Locations and such might be harder as an extra location might have to be added to Kyoto for a Warehouse district for visored, a holy temple for Quncies, an underground lair for Bount, and a home for Fullbring (since they blend in a heck of a lot better than the others). But now I'm just diverting the topic so let me go back to quotes...


Lacrimosa wrote:
As for how to reward in-game players for RP activity, I don't think shards will be a good idea. That's some premium currency that I'd rather the RP not be directly involved with because it'll just encourage "rpers" to find ways to abuse the system no matter what rules are laid down. I'd rather they use their time and energy to further the RP than to find ways to go around the system...

You're right on this one, I can see people abusing it too. I planned on the reward of a premium item being as uncommon as Lsm's newer drop-mechanic idea, if not more since that way players wouldn't just expect free shards for writing. If that's not enough to keep the hopes dim and the hearts open than it's yet another monstrous idea to closet. Oh well ~

Lacrimosa wrote:
I think giving some random icons or little trophies in a player's journal would be an interesting enough incentive if they've been active or nominated by RP mods. There could be monthly/weekly community driven "contest" or highlights in the RP forums. These contests can range from just general RP contribution to games based on writing style (whoever used the least [nominal/adjectival/etc group] in a post of at least XYZ words) or figures of speech (weirdest figure/most figures related to [insert holiday]/etc.) The latter 2 may be a tad bit too...grammatical, but just tossing those out there.

This idea is also rad as hell. Badges can often be anything when it comes to rp setting, from serious awards to parody items for fun. A lot of boards I join are more active because of the "completionists" who want every single badge. This would be a big step for the community, and might also give incentive for badges to be made for game-related things, too.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Maximillion on Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:44 pm

In my honest opinion, the "We're Not Canon" ruling seemed like a Trump Card for times when gameplay (at least on-Grid) deviated from the norms for the Canon Factions. There are a lot of rules and practices (in the Gotei 13, for example) that made Soul Society a balanced, and structurally sound place, and the Gotei 13 a respectable Faction. On many sites, if you want freedom/anarchy, you go Hollow; if you want Order, Structure and Job Security, you go Shinigami. Playing a game in a believable sense is very important to me, and vital to preventing one Faction or another turning into an EdwardxBella or SnapexHarryPotter Cringepasta Fanfic (which is still preferrable to Anarchy).

I don't like the idea of bastardizing Canon by changing the names of Races and all, especially since we're not (to my knowledge) going to try and monetize the Forum RP and milk it for profit; I don't even know how each writer could be monetarily compensated for their efforts, even were the Forums monetized. Shinigami/"Soul Reapers" and Hollows/"Holes" are what they are, as are Bounts (still legit, even if Anime Only, Manga cultists be damned), as are Togabito.

If we must make WoB unrecognizable to Bleach, we can can just describe each Race's progress as starting with Human, then the evolution/manifestation of their power as they go on...or, when they die, the transition of their Soul down one of a number of paths.

↑ Kind of like how, in WoW, you can pick "Specializations" (Shadow Priest, Holy Priest, etc), you could pick "Soul <spirit>, Pure Soul <Rukongai Citizen/Shinigami>, Corrupted Soul<Hollow>, Condemned Soul <Togabito>" once dead... or "Spirit Archer <Quincy>, Immortal <Bount>, Specialist <Fullbringer>" while alive.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by straywolf174 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:51 pm

Maximillion wrote:In my honest opinion, the "We're Not Canon" ruling seemed like a Trump Card for times when gameplay (at least on-Grid) deviated from the norms for the Canon Factions. There are a lot of rules and practices (in the Gotei 13, for example) that made Soul Society a balanced, and structurally sound place, and the Gotei 13 a respectable Faction. On many sites, if you want freedom/anarchy, you go Hollow; if you want Order, Structure and Job Security, you go Shinigami. Playing a game in a believable sense is very important to me, and vital to preventing one Faction or another turning into an EdwardxBella or SnapexHarryPotter Cringepasta Fanfic (which is still preferrable to Anarchy).

I don't like the idea of bastardizing Canon by changing the names of Races and all, especially since we're not (to my knowledge) going to try and monetize the Forum RP and milk it for profit; I don't even know how each writer could be monetarily compensated for their efforts, even were the Forums monetized. Shinigami/"Soul Reapers" and Hollows/"Holes" are what they are, as are Bounts (still legit, even if Anime Only, Manga cultists be damned), as are Togabito.

If we must make WoB unrecognizable to Bleach, we can can just describe each Race's progress as starting with Human, then the evolution/manifestation of their power as they go on...or, when they die, the transition of their Soul down one of a number of paths.

↑ Kind of like how, in WoW, you can pick "Specializations" (Shadow Priest, Holy Priest, etc), you could pick "Soul <spirit>, Pure Soul <Rukongai Citizen/Shinigami>, Corrupted Soul<Hollow>, Condemned Soul <Togabito>" once dead... or "Spirit Archer <Quincy>, Immortal <Bount>, Specialist <Fullbringer>" while alive.

I'm no mod *cue smugness* but I think this deserves it's own topic since it's more gameplay related than rp related. That's just me though.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Maximillion on Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:52 pm

Well, we already have boards to RP on. In order to get the go-ahead, it might be fair to begin airing some suggestions on how we would organize stuff.

It would take virtually ZERO effort for LSM and the other Staff to hype the forums, and post game updates in a designated folder.

As for Administrating and Moderating RP, Stray, Jet and myself have run into no issues when doing our RPs, but I'm sure we can share any issues we have, if/when they come up.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by straywolf174 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:35 pm

Maximillion wrote:Well, we already have boards to RP on. In order to get the go-ahead, it might be fair to begin airing some suggestions on how we would organize stuff.

It would take virtually ZERO effort for LSM and the other Staff to hype the forums, and post game updates in a designated folder.

As for Administrating and Moderating RP, Stray, Jet and myself have run into no issues when doing our RPs, but I'm sure we can share any issues we have, if/when they come up.

Since the RP is literally just "go have fun" and "watch yourself" until Lsm decides it isn't (even with the former rules implemented to keep balance, communication and understanding) I don't really think mods are needed so much as good writers who care about the board enough to make issues known and solve what they can on the sidelines. At least eighty percent of problems between roleplayers are solved in just a few pm's with "Hey, are we doing this?" or something along those lines.

Comuni-effin-cation.

It's a very very VERY important thing for any group of collaborating artists, be they game designers or writers.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Maximillion on Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:55 pm

To expand upon what all I posted earlier, it requires minimal initial effort, and the payout is IMMENSE in the long run. You'll draw people who like to click button and post Memes, and you'll also begin drawing in (and back, with returning players) the Artists, Writers, and other Creative types. The latter will be very helpful to you when you want to crowdsource graphics, skins, CSS and other such stuff through contests, competitions, etc.

Just don't forget to give the creative types first dibs on Roleplay roles, much like how clicks and stats generally determine who the VIPs on the grid are. Giving special consideration to Grid-VIPs on the forums, because they did this or that on the grid/game , would not be healthy for a Roleplay Community, because those people are already where they're best suited to be. The new forums should be like a fresh reset, with the Staff, RP Guides, Helpers and Forum VIP being people who have a chance, in this 2016-2017, to establish themselves in a setting where thought, creativity and muse trumps mouse clicks.

Big Tip: We've got to have a Visual Editor. Like we have here, like Proboards v5 has, like BurningBoard, XenForo and all the non-obsolete boards on the Net have.... While it's best to avoid archaic software like Jcink, Zetaboards, Invisionfree, etc...until they leave the Stone Age of Message Formatting, as they aren't very practical nor useful for what I imagine you'll be wanting
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lacrimosa on Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:33 pm

Maximillion wrote:
Just don't forget to give the creative types first dibs on Roleplay roles, much like how clicks and stats generally determine who the VIPs on the grid are. Giving special consideration to Grid-VIPs on the forums, because they did this or that on the grid/game , would not be healthy for a Roleplay Community, because those people are already where they're best suited to be. The new forums should be like a fresh reset, with the Staff, RP Guides, Helpers and Forum VIP being people who have a chance, in this 2016-2017, to establish themselves in a setting where thought, creativity and muse trumps mouse clicks.

What do you mean by "Creatives" and "Clicks"? The use of the latter makes me think that you believe in-game combat is all about clicking the attack button and I can guarantee that you'll offend people if that is truly what you meant. You also seem to imply that WoB players can't possibly be relevant RPers.

I agree that in-game relevant and rank shouldn't have anything to do with the RP, but I'm against giving first dibs. If someone wants an interesting role, they must at least show that they're competent RPers and are willing to put effort into the RP and be active. I've seen countless good (debatable) writers hog important roles and vanish halfway through the RP or ditch the RP as soon as they got what their RPCs wanted leaving the rest of the community to fix the mess they've started.
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RP Forums Discussion

Post by Maximillion on Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:28 pm

Lacrimosa wrote:
What do you mean by "Creatives" and "Clicks"? The use of the latter makes me think that you believe in-game combat is all about clicking the attack button and I can guarantee that you'll offend people if that is truly what you meant. You also seem to imply that WoB players can't possibly be relevant RPers.
Unfortunately, I'm not the best at knowing how people will interpret my words, so I apologize if something seemed implied in my words, other than what I am trying to convey.

Another way of putting it is: certain people, particularly the (almost) entire player base of WoB, has already found their niche, their cliques, and are comfortable in their setup there.

If they come, and take over the Forums too, it'll be a tragic waste, and the exclusivity and elitism that makes up that demographic, run the serious risk of taking what little of WoB is left for the rest of us to enjoy.


Lacrimosa wrote:I agree that in-game relevant and rank shouldn't have anything to do with the RP, but I'm against giving first dibs. If someone wants an interesting role, they must at least show that they're competent RPers and are willing to put effort into the RP and be active. I've seen countless good (debatable) writers hog important roles and vanish halfway through the RP or ditch the RP as soon as they got what their RPCs wanted leaving the rest of the community to fix the mess they've started.

And I have seen 'good ol' boys' on a site occupy all roles of great importance and significance, virtually 100% of the time I have ever been on a Roleplaying site. I don't know about anyone else, but as someone (practically) joined in 2017, and has been coldly shoved away from opportunities to really mingle and connect with the longer-standing members, I have no desire to be in a Roleplaying Environment where said people have infiltrated all roles of significance, so that the boards become just as harsh and unwelcoming as what I have witnessed on-Grid.

I know there is 'another side' to the story for those people occupying said roles and Cliques on-Grid, but I'll bet it amounts to something along the lines of "We put in the work, the time, the effort, and we built ourselves, and our friendships, from the ground up. We are entitled to the success we have made for ourselves".

Only, they don't realize that people like me, we cannot compete with 3-5+ years of bonding, network-building and friendship-forging. If I'd joined back in 2011, maybe I would be part of this, but I'm not...

...and if we let them bring that here, then we risk people who join in 2017, or 2018, or 2019, experiencing the same isolation as I have.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lacrimosa on Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:07 am

So you are basically saying that people who already have a "clique" in-game shouldn't be allowed to be relevant in the RP. Aren't you being just as elitist as the people you are accusing to be elitists? From where I stand, I could argue that you and the ex-RP mods are also in a clique, so why should anyone bother to try and join the RP forum?

You are also saying that someone without any experience could come in and claim the role of the Soul King because they yelled "First!" before anyone else whereas someone who could be more qualified in terms of Gming experience, writing skill, free time and dedication should just be shoved aside because they are also active in-game and part of one of those dreadful cliques. Further more, how would that help new players that join later? They'd be even less capable of fitting in since all the important roles were already taken.

If that's the direction you want the RP to take, I should have just let it rot instead of beating on a semi-dead soon to be cancerous horse.

And FYI, it doesn't require 3+ years to fit into the community. The current King of Hueco Mundo joined less than a year ago and I can name at least 2 mods that have been around for approximately the same amount of time.

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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Maximillion on Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:36 am

Lacrimosa wrote:So you are basically saying that people who already have a "clique" in-game shouldn't be allowed to be relevant in the RP.
No. I think they should have an equal - EQUAL - not greater shot at those roles. People are creatures of habit, and it will take deliberate effort for people to not just turn to the same charismatic players they defer to on the Grid.

Lacrimosa wrote:Aren't you being just as elitist as the people you are accusing to be elitists?
Elitism is treating one's group as the Elite and Best, and treating everyone else like worthless plebeians. There is a great deal of this on the Grid, but not - whether due to in/activity, or something else - on the forums...yet.

How does this apply to Roleplay, the Grid, and WoB? Those in the uppermost tiers of power, decide who their successors and subordinates will be, and that selection process can determine the course of the Plot and Story. If you select solely (or even mostly) from people who mostly only notice other people they've spent a lot of time getting to know, you risk Newbies (with Equal/Greater qualifications) getting shunted down to the unwanted/lowermost roles nobody else wants, once all the people who hold the Grid (the vets, with the long-established friendships) just filling all of the roles there too.

I am not trying to persecute Oldbies and Vets; I'm trying to establish a system of Checks & Balances, so that the SAME people aren't occupying multiple roles of epic significance, and thereby preventing others from having a fair shot at them.

I, for one, have been underestimated, undervalued, and ignored when I have offered Signatures, Avatars, and other such things in the chat. I offer my designs with a Donations Only caveat, while the people who get all the jobs charge 8 million or more in-game, but their status in the community grants them priority in the eyes of people wanting that service. It's easy, for people who have been around awhile, to blame my newness/awkwardness/ignorance for this, but believe me.... some people are more invisible in the Social Chat of WoB than others, and some people are lucky enough to have lots of flashy colors and glowy blocks next to their names, when they're advertising for their services...

The invisibility we new, unsponsored, unrepresented folks 'enjoy' puts us at a disadvantage on the Grid, so I would hope that we could - without screwing over the Vets/Oldbies - have a chance to shine in the RP, without being shoved off the stage (and back into obscurity) here too.

Lacrimosa wrote:From where I stand, I could argue that you and the ex-RP mods are also in a clique, so why should anyone bother to try and join the RP forum?
Thing is, I'm new, and I have no place in any clique. The ex-RP Mods are strangers to me, we just happen to be the most outspoken against some of the awful things made the 'social norm' for our Community. If other people hop in a Chat we're in, they can get a word in edgewise, and we acknowledge everyone who joins the chat, regardless of their Status (or lack thereof) elsewhere.

Jetxtreme, Straywolf174, and myself will roleplay with anybody. We do not discriminate by age, background, tenure (or lack thereof), nor are any of us (from what I've seen) inclined to criticize people for their newness to RP, nor will we go "GIT GUD OR GTFO" when people come to ask to ask questions, or seek help.

To be honest, I am not the best Spokesperson for any group or demographic; I just happen to be one of the people whose wills can't be crushed under the heel of people who are condescending and/or rude towards me, and choose to be just as loud as the people who try and define WoB's "Social Norms" merely because they yell the loudest.

Heck, I have to go back behind myself, and elaborate on things I previously said, just for the meaning behind my words to not be misunderstood. I'm sure there are more people who believe as I do, that an Egalitarian, Meritocratic system should be in place for our Community (and it's roles of Leadership), so I'm really, REALLY hoping more people will speak up.

People who are better at expressing themselves, without being as long-winded with it as I am.


Lacrimosa wrote: Further more, how would that help new players that join later? They'd be even less capable of fitting in since all the important roles were already taken.
Promotions. We have "Ghost Squads" on the grid, why wouldn't we potentially have Squads that are off the radar of all but the Central 46, Captain-Commander and Noble Houses? Promotions, and also "Plot Packages" allowing someone occupying a high rank a set of Perks in exchange for their current character either dying in battle, or some other plot that makes them fall from grace, get Exiled (like Urahara, Yoruichi, etc), or become a Rogue of their Faction (with the perks that came with their agreeing to free the role they were occupying).

Lacrimosa wrote:You are also saying that someone without any experience could come in and claim the role of the Soul King because they yelled "First!"
No, but I am saying that the vetting process should have nothing to do with a person's standing on the Grid, how long they've been on WoB, or whether or not they could win a popularity vote.

Lacrimosa wrote:before anyone else whereas someone who could be more qualified in terms of Gming experience, writing skill, free time and dedication should just be shoved aside because they are also active in-game and part of one of those dreadful cliques.
There's a term, "Monopoly", that describes what I do not want to see: people who already have a nauseating amount of EXP and Currency on-Grid, just strolling onto the boards, smug grin on their face, grabbing at the high-ranking RP Slots, and everyone else applauding their seizure of said roles; they may or may not even be around to play those roles in 2-3 months time, but because they have tenure and are sponsored by members of Staff, they just get dropped into those roles, no-contest.

Lacrimosa wrote:And FYI, it doesn't require 3+ years to fit into the community. The current King of Hueco Mundo joined less than a year ago and I can name at least 2 mods that have been around for approximately the same amount of time.

I've seen people with years under their belts, on that cred alone, get away with saying things that will get an unsponsored Newbie smacked on about a dozen or more Blacklists.

I would know, I've actually tested that theory. Just took something that Caesar, or Law, or Hitori said that might've been some off-color humor or a crack at another player... and next thing I know, the chat topic becomes about all the people who now have me Blacklisted. (And I would often get warnings for "Degrading Remarks", even when all I did was copy/paste (verbatim) what a lv150 said only a week prior, once their statement wasn't fresh on anyone's minds anymore)

If you think that the way people talk to and regard one another, has ZERO bearing on how the same person(s) could wind up being treated if we didn't put Checks and Balances on those Uppermost-Tier roles, let me tell you.... it DOES.
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Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

Post by Lacrimosa on Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:36 am

Your wording and my lines you seem opposed to or at least inclined to comment on makes me think otherwise, but I'm just going to assume that it was a misunderstanding between us. So, to clear that up, are you agreeing that an Rper's contribution and efforts should be what affect the importance of their RPC?

I also find it quite hard to believe that you're not at least subconsciously persecuting older players. I've been purposefully avoiding the whole mod-biased debate because that wasn't the focus of my initial letter, it was to revive the forum and bring back RP in case I wasn't clear enough, but you mention the bias in almost every single one of your posts. (I'll be honest, I didn't read all your posts, just skimmed through those directly related to mine, so I may have taken some things out of context.)

You go as far as saying that a lot of players are in cliques and that if they come over, it'll be a "take over," a "tragic waste",  very connotated choices of word that lack tact. After reading this, as someone who is arguably part of a clique, I can't help but feel unwanted. Cliques are bad? They would waste the RP? alrighty, m8, I'll stick to my cliques. It feels like you are extremely defensive of these New Lands you've found and only want people not in cliques to join when you should be taking this as an opportunity to bait people into opening up.

I can understand your plight about being ignored when offering your services for signatures or avatars, but that is just how the art industry works. This may just be a game, but it's a good microcosm of how commissions and requests work: you have to shove your work in people's face, whether they want it or not, and pull strings/connections/ favors if you want to be noticed while you quietly build your portfolio. Meanwhile the big names will have people flocking to them and have the leisure to pick their client despite their exorbitant price. Good relations play a very big role in earning you patrons. The world and business is not a meritocracy despite what we're being taught as a child and there is no law forcing consumers to support service providers in an equalitarian way.  

As for your issues with mixed and favoritism, I would HIGHLY (all caps for emphasis) suggest you start taking screenshot. As much as I would like to believe what you are saying, I have yet to see any proof of all that taking place. Mixed messages, PMs, official warnings, EVERYTHING should be screenshoted for the sake of having some sort of record at hand to back up your claims. Lightshot is a pretty useful program most people here use for screenshot.

I wasn't there so I wouldn't know the context, but from what I've seen, many mods work under the assumption that if the recipient of such comment are fine with it (inside joke and what not) and no report has been made, they don't take it too seriously. It would make sense, you don't walk up to a random person you meet on the street or your arch nemesis (I am under the impression that you've pissed off the majority of the active Mixed user)  while yelling "your mom sucks" and expect to walk away scot free. The exception to that would be words that could trigger others and flat out insults. If they give you a warning, drop the topic in chat. Sure, you can go SJW mode to defend yourself and that is your right, but that goes through supports. Discussing that in mixed will only worsen your case. They don't like controversial topics or arguing there.
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